Embracing Neurodiversity: What I wish my parents knew: Nicole Bateman chats with Steven Ingram

In episode 10 of "Conversations with a SEND Mum," host Nicole Bateman engages in a conversation with Steven Ingram, the owner of Neurodiversity Together. As an autistic individual with ADHD and a stammer, Steven shares profound insights into his childhood experiences, the impact on his journey, and his invaluable work promoting neurodiversity inclusion in the workplace.

Episode Highlights:

• Childhood Experiences and Insights: Steven opens up about his childhood experiences and how they have shaped his perspective as an autistic individual. He candidly shares his insights into what he wished his parents knew during his formative years, offering valuable reflections on understanding and acceptance.
• Promoting Neurodiversity in the Workplace: The conversation transitions to Steven's advocacy work in promoting neurodiversity inclusion in the workplace. Nicole and Steven delve into the importance of creating inclusive environments that embrace the strengths and talents of neurodivergent individuals, fostering innovation and diversity.

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Transcript

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Hello and welcome to conversations with a SEND mom with me as your host, Nicole Bateman. This podcast is sponsored by the super sensory squad, helping kids understand the sensory systems and emotional regulation using our amazing penguins today. I am talking to Steven Ingram and he is the founder of neurodiversity together. This organization works with other organizations and individuals to bring neurodiverse and neurotypical people. Together to excel at work. He has contributed to the government report by Sir Robert Buckland on autism, and he has an amazing wife and two lovely boys. So, Steven, welcome. Hi, and thank you for having, me. You're very welcome. So Steven reached out to me on LinkedIn and said some really lovely, encouraging things. And he also, as an autistic person with stammer, he wanted to kind of flip this podcast on its head a little bit and share his experiences as a child so that all of you listening can have that. really important insight. So Steven, can you tell us a little bit about you and your childhood, please? So my diagnosis journey was an interesting one. My autism diagnosis came late 90s, early noughties. It then wasn't until 2019 but I got my ADHD diagnosis. Throughout that time I learned a heck of a lot about myself and actually the key thing that led to me getting my ADHD diagnosis was starting to properly embrace my Autism, not only just acknowledging that I had it. And I think that really the biggest lesson that I want others to take away from my experiences is, number one, for people with any sort of condition, whether neurodegenerative. diverse or not. But also parents is to share my story to see if any of the points that I make might help, others. Yeah, definitely. Excellent. And I'm sure, they will, because sometimes I know, for example, with my son, I would love to understand what he's thinking in his head and whether I am supporting in the best way that I can. So hearing that insight. So what are some of the kinds of things you would say to parents? I think firstly, being a parent myself my two sons are four and a half and one. My wife and I never know what the right thing to do is. We're saying, oh, if we do that. Will it sort of affect him several years down the line? There's never a simple answer. It's, it is such a hard, hard job to start with. So, I think really the first thing I want to say is to parents it isn't, easy and please remind your yourselves of that. But I think that really reflecting on my childhood, there are a couple of things that I wish my parents had encouraged me to do differently. Bear in mind that my autism diagnosis, like I said was almost 25 years ago, where Autism wasn't spoken about that much at all. Mental health wasn't mentioned. Stigma was far, far greater. So it's definitely worth taking that into consideration as well. But I think that some of the Key things are after the diagnosis this came for me. It felt like okay, brilliant. We have a name for it. Job done. Actually, that should have only been the start of that journey and I think that the obviously that journey will look very different for everyone, but actually, actually, I spent many years just thinking that my autism was just the generic symptoms, characteristics or traits listed online. It's, sort of only really been in, in the last five years where I used some of the frameworks from my Management consultancy career on my self and actually something that I wish I would have done when I was younger is to not only recognize what my condition is, but to map out the unique fabric of characteristics, traits, and symptoms that I experience to map out what triggers those things. And to also map out what the impacts are on me, what the impacts are on things good. when they're medium, when they're bad. To really number one, for my parents to sort of know me better, to be able to sort of understand, okay, right, if sort of x happens, y might be the result. But also for me to be able to understand myself, to not feel that there was sort of something wrong with me or broken with me but to also recognize my strengths and act, and actually that's a really, really big, big thing. I think that, that, that my frustration with a lot of the disclosure document out there, and I'll come on to that very soon, largely only speaks about what the challenges are, actually recognize what the strengths are. I've got so many things that I can do better than so many other people I've worked with. Yes, I've also got things that I'm much, much worse at, but when I used to describe my condition through school to, to teachers through uni and at work, I would only focus on the bad parts of it, not the good ones. Yeah, I think there's, there's so much there that we can learn as parents from that, and I think the kind of traits, triggers, impact on the individual, like on your individual child, or if you're a teacher listening, you know, on your individual students and things like that, and in the workplace, you know that, that experience there, I think is a really good way of knowing yourself, knowing your child, knowing, knowing all of those things. So thank you for sharing that with us. So as you then developed and you kind of, got to older child and then into the workplace, what, you know, what were some of your experiences then? When I entered the workplace, it was 2008. So neurodiversity wasn't a word that was mentioned really at all. Management consultancy can be a really, really tough industry to work in and being, part of a grad scheme as well. I really wanted to be to use a better word, normal, really. To really sort of feel like I was the same as everyone else. I think that in hindsight, actually, recognizing the challenges that I had, knowing myself better, would have helped my career tremendously. I mean, one example is I was on a particular project where I was basically working approximately 12 to 16 hours a day. Including including approximately four hours train travel each day. And, and I was absolutely exhausted and burnt out. But because I didn't understand myself well enough, I didn't recognize that I was feeling like that. And I just thought, well, I just have to push through it because everyone else would just do exactly the same thing. And it's sort of reflecting on, on things like that. But I think really for me, that also takes me into Disclosure, whenever anyone asks me should I disclose my condition, I always say, well, it's not about whether you disclose or not, but it is how you do it and the story that you, tell, you really want to move somebody from acknowledgement to under standing. You want to help somebody not only understand what the condition or the challenge that you're having is, but also help them understand a bit about what it feels like. Don't only look at the bad sides, but give a much, much more comprehensive story. Empower your Children to own the narrative around their condition so that they can advocate for themselves. I wish that my parents would have given me the knowledge and the tools to be able to do that more when I was younger. Yeah. Thank you. I love that. Acknowledge, moving acknowledgement to understanding. I think that's key and that's, that's definitely something I'm passionate about that empowering our kids to help them, advocate but, for sensory preferences, for example, through the super sensory squad and all of those things so that they fully understand themselves. I think we can definitely take a lot from what you've said there as parents generally. You know, to, to help our kids understand themselves and their strengths and, things like that as well. Because yeah, fully that full self, not just that list. I mean, when we had to, when we did the went through the autism diagnosis with my son, like. Last year, the forms, in there just made me really sad because it was all about deficits. It was all about things like that. And I was like, Oh, this is not, this is not my son. This is not the whole picture of my son. This is not anything like that. And so I definitely think a lot of people can learn from what you've said there. And the whole system, the whole systems could learn from it. I think that, as well as the. Disclosure part. One of the really important parts that I've had at work so many times and my focus in consultancy was things like people, culture, learning, change, HR transformation, so on and so forth. Whenever I explain something to a client, I would always make sure they'd understood what I'd said, because if they went away with a different understanding, we would go off in two separate paths. And that's where misunderstanding happens. And I think that for any type of condition when you're speaking to a teacher or anyone else. That exact same thing can happen. It's so so easy especially when it's such a complex and such a personal topic for you or the person you're explaining it to, to misunderstand something. There's nothing wrong with asking somebody what have you understood from what I've told you? Let's make sure that we're both on exactly the same page because it's much, much harder to re align ourselves later. Yeah. That gives much more clarity, doesn't it? If you ask that question and have that clear communication. So definitely, definitely that. So In your work now, then you, you left the workplace as a employee and you started your own business. What, what's your experience been of that and how do you help? It's been very, very different actually. I've had to manage myself much, much more. I think that on the whole, I'm. It's definitely been a more not not necessarily relaxing, but definitely a less stressful experience. I can give myself the, the flex it I need around my. Condition. I think that I've also been very, very lucky in having such a brilliant group of people around me who have also been in instrumental in making my company work so far. I think really. With regards to what I do for clients is I always make everybody think in a slightly different way. I always sort of challenge the status quo. I give workshops and learning and change programs in a way that allows people to examine the role of everybody involved in the process of making for my work at least. Neurodiversity su successful in the workplace. What I also do is work with companies to look at their central entity to. Process assesses, and really work out if those processes are neurodiverse friendly. It doesn't mean rewriting the process end to end, but it might just be a case of adding in an extra sentence or an extra paragraph of guidance along the way, and suddenly that unlocks a much more inclusive process. I think that. A lot of the clients I've worked with think that all of my work means expensive, big, crazy changes. But actually, the most effective changes a company can make is evolving and growing what they currently do. Yeah, excellent. So as we kind of wrap up, what is some encouragement that you would give to parents listening right now from your experiences? I think it would be to I don't want to say to not listen to teachers, but to not necessarily allow a professional of any sort to to into thinking what your child may or may not be able to do with their lives. I know that for some children, unfortunately, they may not be as It may be clear of some of the limitations that they have, but I'm saying this from the point of view, if I'd listened to what teachers told me, if I listened to the negative enforcement that I had growing up, I wouldn't be where I am now. I think What that did to me was it lit a fire to make me want to do better to beat them. And actually it is, that really is such an important thing that I tell others. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. You know, we often on these conversations that we've had so far, we, we as parents, we know our kids more than someone looking at them for five minutes and, and then trying to help. our kids understand themselves, like you said, I think is, is really helpful for us. As well though, I've also met, met parents who assume their child may not be able to do X, Y, or Z. What I would say is, and you're right, we definitely know our kids better than anyone else, but also don't subconsciously allow yourself to limit. Those aspirations. Either. Yeah. Yeah, that's an important reminder.'cause sometimes I suppose you might be in a state of like, ah, no, this is gonna have, you know, you can spiral as a, as a parent, you can spiral. You can think about that. So it's useful to think Yeah, actually, why not? Why can't they do that? Like they can, they can do anything. Absolutely. Totally. Yeah. So thank you so much, Steven, for chatting with me today. And where's the best place to connect with you further? So LinkedIn yeah, Steven with a v. Ingram or you can, can email Steven at neuro diversity together.com. Excellent. And I look forward to reading your contributions as well to the government. so Robert Buckland report on autism, so yeah, I'll let, I'll. Put a link in the show notes when it, when it comes out. Thank you. Thank you. Excellent. So remember that every Wednesday an episode comes out for conversations with Send Mum. Thank you so much for listening and I will see you next week.