ADHD, Autism and Masking in the Workplace: Nicole Bateman chats with Tania Gerard

In Season 3 episode 7 of Conversations with a SEND Mum, Nicole Bateman is joined by Tania Gerard, an autistic and ADHD advocate, trainer, and speaker. Together, they explore the challenges of being neurodivergent in the workplace and the crucial need for understanding and inclusion in professional settings.

Key Highlights:

• Neurodiversity and Masking in the Workplace: Tania shares her personal experiences of masking in the high-pressure world of marketing. She discusses the toll it took on her mental health and how societal expectations can push neurodivergent individuals to hide their true selves in order to fit in.
• The Journey to Self-Acceptance: Tania opens up about the pivotal moments in her journey to embracing her neurodivergence. From recognizing the harmful effects of masking to understanding her own needs, Tania shares how this transformation inspired her to advocate for others.
• Training Companies on Neurodiversity: Using her lived experiences, Tania now works with businesses to educate them about neurodiversity. She explains how she helps organizations understand the value of diverse minds, the importance of reasonable adjustments, and practical ways to create truly inclusive workplaces.

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Check out our Season 1 and 2 sponsor The Super Sensory Squad who support kids in understanding the eight sensory systems and emotional regulation using their penguin squad at: www.thesupersensorysquad.com and www.instagram.com/thesupersensorysquad

Transcript

2:08

Hello and welcome to Conversations with an SEND Mum. I'm Nicole Bateman, your host for this podcast today I am joined by Tanya Gerrard thank you so much for joining us. Thank you for inviting me. It's so special to be here today. I'm so excited. Excellent. Can you tell everyone a little bit about you, your story and your connection to the SEND community, please? Absolutely. So my name is Tanya Gerrard. I am from Leicester. My family consists of a partner and a co crespendual who are my absolute world. And I an ADHD and autistic femur going by all DHD as us millennials say. And I'm a small business owner. Who offers neurodiversity workshops and accessible marketing assistance to the corporate world. And this connects my passion to accessibility and inclusivity. The personal journey, the connection of SEND with my ADHD and autism. I was diagnosed with ADHD as a child. Later in life I was diagnosed with ADHD and autism. I'm contemplating the idea of having children as I'm deeply aware of, passing down my neurospiciness and would like to be more educated before deciding on whether it's the right thing to do, which is why I'm so excited to be on this podcast. Learn from all your other interviews cause it's, it's just super interesting. So I've worked with the NHS recently, assisting them with their accessible marketing strategy. I've spoken at conferences such as UnderOne and Nottingham Digital Summit, educating about neurodiversity how it can bring, allowing neurodivergence to basically find their voice in the workplace. A significant moment when I realized the importance of advertising for SEND. Individuals is my own experience, I worked my way up from digital assistant to head of digital in the marketing world. I was utterly burnt out at the end, completely unmotivated masking for 24 seven for years and years and years. Hit me like a ton of bricks, not going to lie. And I needed help understanding my neurodivergence. So I took a step back, taught myself how to work for my ADHD and autism. Realized I wasn't alone. So now I assist companies across the UK with neurodiversity education in the workplace and aid them in their accessible marketing effects. Amazing. I love, I love that, you know, you've come from that place, that, that personal experience and then you're trying to make that difference because you don't want others like you to be burnt out the corporate sector. So many will resonate with that because, neurodiversity in the workplace is tricky I'm trying to do this for the, the younger generation of digital marketers marks the marketing world in general. But on a personal note, it's actually kind of like a letter of love. It sounds cheesy. But it's true. A letter of love to my younger self. I'm now providing the systems I wish I had in the workplace in my earlier career. And, to be honest, and again, another cheese moment, we love cheese. if I can help some, like one person moving into the sector, or just, or at school, or whatever age. If I just help one person, I've, I've done my job. So, yeah. It all went down the right road in the end. Yeah, absolutely. I'm sure you have already helped more than one person and you will continue to do so. Which is, which is great. So you said you diagnosed with ADHD earlier and then autism slightly later. So can you tell us some of the misconceptions, especially around ADHD? I feel like there's quite a lot, oh, there's so much. It's, you know, we've got really poor time management we're lazy and we can't concentrate. And in terms of kind of like the SEND community, there's a lot of like. Misconceptions like SEND children and adults are less capable or can't achieve much. This myth is very harmful and inaccurate. You know SEND only refers to learning disabilities. No, it doesn't. It covers a broad spectrum including, physical, emotional and developmental needs, like ADHD and autism accommodations for SEND are unnecessary or too difficult to implement. I've heard that a lot recently, you know, and I think it's important to educate people that accessibility is for everyone, whether you are a neurodivergent. Or a neurotypical people. It's not just to send individuals, it is literally for everyone. And everyone has a right to be happy with their lives, happy in the workplace. Because let's be honest, life is way too short to have so many restrictions to just live a normal life. Accessibility. And this is what, this is what I spend a lot of my time also trying to be like, look, I'm not trying to make it difficult for the teachers at school I'm just trying to let my son be able to access the learning. He's very intelligent and clever. If things aren't broken down into single step things, if he can't access it, so he goes into freeze mode, and it's not him being able to do if you just go one at a time, one simple instruction, he'll be able to do it, but if you go blah, blah, blah, blah, then he's just going to go, I can't do it. I do it now. And you, send children. I've seen it with my own eyes. You know, when they are given the right support, the right structure, both at home and in schools, their faces completely change and those masks just drop and it's like a completely different child. Like I saw the Pearson's parent guide, DEI report recently. It said 66 percent of teachers agree that the education provided in schools today is inclusive of all pupils in the UK. Don't think that's high enough. You know, 36 percent of parents say the same. So that's a lot lower. And 25 percent of parents are confident that the current education system provides the best outcome for all peoples, including CEND students. 25 percent that is low. It'd be interesting to also know if those parents Have kids do they actually send children? Because I think it would be a whole other ball game. Yeah, absolutely. Oh gosh. Because that's the thing, I mean, with both my children, for example, my daughter, she can access. learning, I send her in,. So if I was just a parent of her, my viewpoint, wouldn't have had the personal experience that I have had with my son. So my viewpoint might be slightly different, but it's not. I just feel very strongly that there's There's so many things that are quick easy to implement if, if the right, just like I said, the right support and structure was there and people just sat down just for a second and just like, maybe we're thinking about this all wrong. Let's take a step back. Let's ask the children as well. If we talk more about my journey, I was never asked what I needed in the classroom. I constantly got the problem child label, and no one asked me how I felt, no one asked me why I did things. There was one teacher that changed everything, they sat me down and said, what do you need? What are you fearful of? What makes you angry? With ADHD and autism, we've got very heightened emotions. So if something scary for us happens, or if something angers us, we don't just sad or angry. It goes from zero to a hundred in a second, and our brains are not catching up with us. We've got different structures, different chemical imbalances. Obviously we're not neurotypical, sometimes my brain doesn't catch up with my body, just stuttering. It's very hard, and I know a lot of people say, oh, we're not mind readers. And it's like, but you're not given the time for parents, to send parents and to send children to actually speak. So why don't you give them the platform? to speak. Sorry, I get very passionate about this. Definitely wouldn't apologise. And this is a good platform to chat about that because it's important. It's so important and that's why lived experience from neurodivergent kids, adults, you know, it's so important because then, everyone can learn what it's actually like. And then hopefully make. things accessible in the school and in the workplace, which is why it's great. So, you know, a bit more about some of your kind of unique challenges and successes that you've been through over the years. So, I mean, navigating the system while we're on the topic navigating those education systems, health services, obtaining proper accommodations, relationships, to the workplace. I have struggled with them all, okay? In terms of being a child. I've gone through nursery to nursery, school to school, not fitting in, and none of the teachers knowing what to do with me I had a turning point with that teacher I just spoke about who literally sat me down and said, let's get this right. Talk to me. And I was like, Oh my God, literally changed my life. That one conversation literally. But I think there is a lack of understanding even now in 2024 about SEND and the emotional complexities we have to go through both as children and adults. And especially for SEND parents, The educational support and the mental health support can be really difficult for children and some parents as well due to the waiting periods. Yeah. In terms of success, it's been a long road of education and sitting myself down and saying, we need to figure this out, Tanya. Like it's ruining your life. We can work with it, not against it. But I think creating my service was a real victory. I knew what I offered was sorely needed, but I didn't realize I was inside my own head about it a lot, being like, Oh, no one's going to hire me. I'm not their cup of tea. Going into corporates, directing them how to take care of their stuff better. no one's going to want to hear that. But like, they do hasn't been like that at all. Like it's. blown up and it's been the most wonderful educational and personal journey I've ever had. I've had directors and their employees come up to me saying, how they feel seen, how they didn't realize so much went into our little neuro spicy brains. How my service should be part of the onboarding process. I've had, The most amazing hugs I've ever had in my life, and I've had tears, I've had grins, I've had a bunch of gratitude and in terms of like, because I'm, I'm based in Leicester, so I focus a lot in Leicestershire because I want to help my local community. But I've directed people to information that they wouldn't receive straight away. You know, like with one to ones and giving them emotional support as they wait to be assessed. not everyone can afford private care. The waiting list for ADHD is at least three years now. I'm trying to be almost like the middle woman you need to know now that you're not alone. As a SEND child, as a SEND parent as a SEND partner, you are not alone these are the things you might be told in your assessment, but it's best to know now to help your brain change your life and help others understand. So I always say educate and advocate. Because it's literally educating and advocating and it's just helping everyone understand that no two brains are the same anyway, but when you are neurodivergent, life is just, it's complicated and messy, but it's also wonderful. There's so many strengths to being a neurodivergent child and a neurodivergent adult So that's my challenges and successes. Amazing. Yeah, definitely. There's so many that you learn. Like I went, so when my son's was diagnosed with epilepsy, I deep dived Yeah. Into the brain and neuroscience and taught myself a lot of like, that is my, oh, have you learned about the basil ganglia? Prefrontal cortex yeah. because that's a specific area where the altered brain activity is. And so then you think about and you put together, you're like, well, then that will impact the emotions, the limbic, all of those kinds of things. You're like, Oh, well, this makes sense. So it helped me understand the observed behavior that I was seeing. now through the Super Sensory Squad, trying to help parents teachers and visitor attractions, understand what the brain is like, how we process sensory input and how that's different to, others and things like that. So it's a journey, but understanding, regulate, advocate, because you got to understand. Everything and have that knowledge, like you said, that education to be able to then regulate because you know, your triggers, you know what comforts you and then you advocate to try and have those needs met in whatever setting, whether that's school, whether that's in a public place Yeah, it's a big thing, and it's really hard to open up as well. Like, my earlier career, I didn't say I had ADHD and autism, not until right at the end, anyway, because I felt like in the workplace, there just wasn't that safe space to say it, because of, The childhood that I had, there was no acceptance. There was variants of, of medications that didn't work. Cause obviously I was growing, like I was going through puberty. The body changes, the brain changes. So it was just a constant battle. But I think talking about it is such a big step And you should be so proud of yourself, it's so hard to try and help your own neurodivergence and then help your child as well. as my friend says, it's a double whammy, it's, it's trying to work with yourself as well as your child and, just learning and, you know, educate and advocate like we said, I can't even get the words out because it's just such a big journey of day to day life, isn't it? So, it's amazing what you're doing. You should be so proud of yourself. You really should be. And what you're doing with this podcast as well, I just want to say, it's such a beautiful thing. And this is why I wanted to, come on. The interviews I've seen, they're so beautiful and raw and there's no red tape and no one seems to feel on edge talking to you. I feel super relaxed as well and I feel a lot of passion can come through doing that, And I think safe spaces are really important. So I just want to say thank you for creating the podcast. And I think you're just a wonderful human being for doing all of this. Thank you. So thank you. You're welcome. We want honest, open conversations because then hopefully those people listening, they're like, yeah, I don't feel alone. Like there's someone else who's gone through. Yeah, exactly. we chat to different people because there will be someone that resonates with different people and yeah. I feel the same and I'm not alone and that's the whole point of it, to help people feel less alone because it can be draining when you burn out and when you couldn't share that you, you have ADHD, autistic, you know, you felt like you couldn't share that. That must be really hard. It was hard while learning about neurodivergence, and then masking 24 7 for literally nearly a decade in the marketing industry. If anyone knows about the marketing industry, how fast paced it is, how many different projects you do on a day to day basis, And then imagine me masking. How did you last that long? Like masking with all that? Like, yeah, I don't know. It's the perks of ADHD. We have all that extra energy and neuro spiciness and boxing classes Yeah, absolutely well done for that, but we want to be in a society where you don't have to mask, we want to be in a society where there's acceptance, accessibility and all of those things people like you and me and other people, working to do that, that gives hope, doesn't it? It gives absolute hope. One extra voice. So just to finish off, what do you think is a crucial aspect of support that is needed? I think support wise, it's emotional support. the importance of emotional support networks. For families whether through formal systems like counselling or informal peer groups, I think they are just so crucial to stay sane, sharing stories, sharing hopes and fears, talking to someone who genuinely gets all the B's in your head, is a really beautiful thing to find. And I think you feel no longer alone. And that is a big thing for a lot of us, the need for ongoing advocacy to ensure that SEND children are treated fairly and receive the accommodations they need, literally changes lives. And then maybe, I think, access to resources. I think it's crucial for families to have access to resources such as therapies, learning support inclusive activities to, you know, really understand themselves, And, bond with children as well. And I think from a community perspective, I think volunteering and advocacy, you know, people can get involved in volunteering with local SEND charities, speaking up in schools, workplaces, you know, obviously donating to SEND related causes. I know there's a website called Brain which has two A's in it. And they have lots of, ADHD, autism, charity, special anxiety, chromosome disorders, and so much more. So I recommend checking that out. Inclusive programs. So I think encouraging businesses, schools, communities to create more inclusive environments by, you know, offering flexible programs, adapting teaching methods, or simply just listening to the needs of families and children is really important. And then I think educating the public, you know, simple ways people can educate themselves about SEND issues. this can be done by reading books, you know, attending workshops following SEND advocates on social media. So the information is out there. I think we just need to make it bigger and more accessible and easy to follow, easy to understand And easy to move forward with, I think, as well. yeah, absolutely. And listening to podcasts like this. It's so easy to listen to information just like this. While doing a run, while cooking, while having water therapy, having baths maybe not the shower, don't put your headphones in the shower, people. if you have a water proof system, or the phone across the thing, we don't want accidents on this podcast. audio just cause you can carry on doing your day to day thing. you can forget that cup of tea that's gone cold. The fifth time, well, thank you, Tanya. It's lovely to chat with you. Where can people, you know, because people listening, they might be like, right, my workplace actually needs some help. Tanya to come in and sort out? absolutely. So our website is www Tanya UK Instagram, Tanya. We have a Facebook page, Tanya Gerard Digital. And I should probably spell it out that I'm a Tanya, not a Tanya. So Tanya is T A N I A and then Gerard, G E R A R D. Excellent. Thank you so much. Lovely to chat with you. Keep up the good work. I'm a big fan of this podcast. We love it. Thank you. And remember that every week on Wednesday, we have a new episode coming. So I will see you next Wednesday. Bye.