The Journey into SEND Fatherhood: Nicole Bateman chats with Mark Allen and Callum Galbraith

In episode 9 of Season 3 of Conversations with a SEND Mum, Nicole Bateman welcomes Mark Allen and Callum Galbraith, two of the 14 fathers featured in The Journey into SEND Fatherhood, a powerful new book by SEND Reform England. Together, they dive into the unique experiences of being SEND Dads, sharing the challenges, triumphs, and personal growth that come with raising children with additional needs.

Key Takeaways:

1. Mark and Callum’s Stories
   Mark and Callum open up about their individual journeys into fatherhood, the initial struggles they faced, and how their perspectives evolved as they learned to navigate the world of SEND.
2. Breaking Down Barriers
   The discussion highlights the emotional toll on dads, the importance of vulnerability, and how societal expectations often impact their roles. They emphasise the need for better recognition and support for fathers within the SEND community.
3. The Inspiration Behind the Book
   Mark and Callum discuss the collaborative effort behind The Journey into SEND Fatherhood and how the book aims to provide solidarity and guidance for other fathers who may feel isolated in their experiences.
4. Advice for SEND Dads
   Nicole, Mark, and Callum share actionable advice for dads, including finding a supportive community, advocating for their children, and the importance of understanding and acceptance.

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Check out our Season 1 and 2 sponsor The Super Sensory Squad who support kids in understanding the eight sensory systems and emotional regulation using their penguin squad at: www.thesupersensorysquad.com and www.instagram.com/thesupersensorysquad

Transcript

2:08

Hello, and welcome to Conversations with an SEND Mum, with me as your host, Nicole Bateman. Today I'm joined with two guests, Mark and Callum, and they are two of the 14 dads that have shared their story in the upcoming book from Send Reform England, The Journey into Send Fatherhood. So welcome both of you. Hi, Nicole. So great to have you on. And first of all, I'm going to come to Callum, what is your connection to the SEND community, please? Yeah, so I have two boys, Angus and Oscar. They are six and seven. Both of them are diagnosed autistic and ADHD. They both have quite high care needs. Thanks. And what about you, Mark? In my team, I've got three. Kids, Jay, who's 11, Otto, who's nine and India, who is seven. The two boys diagnosed autistic ADHD and the girl India is very obviously autistic, but not yet fully diagnosed, we're just assuming she is. And we'll carry on parenting the way we do with the boys basically. And the kid's mom as well is late diagnosed. Autistic ADHD. So it's just me on my own as this lone neurotypical me and the cat. to be fair, I'm fairly sure the cat's got PDA. And you share, don't you, Mark, about neuro shambles? Neuro shambles is, My podcast describing the chaotic mix of neurotypes in our household and how we navigate that. there's always that mix, isn't it? I definitely love to chat about how, sometimes one person in the family might then trigger the other person, chaos. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yes, the chain reaction is fun and it's like plate spinning trying to keep everyone on an even keel. So, let's talk about the book. So why, why did you guys, how did you get involved? Why did you guys think that it would be good to share your story from that dad's perspective? It's like my wife made me do it. No, I'm kidding. I'm kidding. For me it was, I just wanted to share that whilst my story is unique to myself, it's certainly not something that is solely something I would have gone through in terms of my mental health struggles with everything with adapting to the reality of what my kid's life was going to be. So it was just more getting out there and letting other dads know that it's okay to feel that way. It's normal. And actually, letting other people realize that once you make the adaptations you need to make, it's actually brilliant. your kids having autism or ADHD or anything, actually, it's just part of them. And it actually makes all those little things. 10 times better when they do achieve goals. So like when Oscar said his first word, yeah, he was five years old, but him saying his first word at five years old meant so much more to me than it probably did for, a neurotypical dad whose child said it at one year old. Yeah, I love that. I love those wins, Sometimes, you know, you share that win to someone who, say like my son, for example, discos are really tricky, but he wants to go to the school disco every time, every time from reception. He's now in year four. He always wants to go, but he stands on the kind of barrier of the room. He doesn't go into the dark room with the lights but he just observes and loves to do that. And I'm always there as a one to one for him. And this year he actually crossed that boundary. I was like, he actually went in. And that person just looked at me like, what are you chatting about? Because they don't get it though, do they neurotypicals? I mean, yeah, there's a section on my podcast called tiny epic wins, which is like the little things that neurotypicals wouldn't rejoice in because they are less meaningful. And then there's, you know, they're huge in our world. So my, my one recently is that, so my daughter will not wear a coat in the freezing cold weather, like it's snowing. And I've been really struggling because I'm fairly sure she's got PDA as well, which is pathological demand avoidance suggesting a coat is just met with a flat no. And I look like a terrible parent because she's out in the freezing cold, just wearing a light hoodie. I bought a poncho and just left it lying around and she started wearing it last week. And it's like, that is such a massive thing for me. And now she started accessorizing it as well. She went in with a fedora today. She looks amazing. But this is the thing I get to talk back to your original question about why I did it it's about normalizing our journey because you know, the expectation, when we were dads, before we had kids was that I'm a father and I'm going to say, this is how you're going to be. And you're going to wear this and you're going to do this. And this is how you'll behave in these situations. And you pretty soon realized that that is not going to pan out in that way. And there's no point in you trying to force it. You need to let them show you who they are. And if that person is someone who walks into school wearing a poncho and a fedora, then the world is a brighter place for it. Love it. I love that. that would make me smile if I saw that kid. My kids make me smile every day. They really do. there's such a good point because those small wins just mean so much. I cried when he went into the Cisco. Of course. And then you just feel like, oh, okay, everyone's just looking at me like, what are you doing? But it's great to connect with people who get it as well. By you guys sharing. in the book as well, it's going to help other people. So, Callum, I mean, you said in jest, but also slightly, you know, this is very similar to my husband, who's also part of the book. I was like, yeah, you should do it. so people buying the book, potentially it might be mums that are going to try and get their husbands to like, or partners to be like, can you read this book? why should the dads read it? I think it's just a window into other dads minds and understanding, that they're not alone with these different things that they may be feeling. And, just understanding that if other dads can go through it, then, they can too. Seeing that at the end of it all, for me, the biggest struggle was acceptance. once I did accept it, the world was a brighter place because all I ever saw was the joy that was coming from that. So when Angus wasn't listening to me, but he was off doing his own thing and smiling and giggling, whereas maybe once I probably would have thought that was bad behavior. Actually, now I see it for, that's him just having a brilliant time in his own little way and he's not hurting anybody doing it. I think that's so important because it is, I think that often, I know with my husband, he wanted to be like, this is, you obey your dad, it's kind of that societal view of you follow the instructions of your parents, you do all of those things. And that, if they're hyper focused on something they're enjoying, like Angus is. they're not just ignoring you to be annoying. You need to then work out the way to be like transition and all of those things. So it takes a bit more effort than just going, right, come on, we need to go. And then yeah, I think it's a very male perspective being a dad You try and raise your children, as a mirror of how you were raised in older generations, the dad was the authority figure that would be the one that sort of sets the firm, firm boundaries and make sure that they're enforced. And so I think as dads, we inherit that and assume that that's how we're going to parent. And it's such a huge shift as you were saying, Callum, understanding That that's not going to work and you have to rethink this. And I think the mums are always way ahead of us on that front. I don't know if it's too stereotypical to say that there's a more traditionally nurturing role there. to break free of the expectations of being the authority figure as a dad is quite jarring sometimes. But I think that's why it's important to have these experiences in this book that was a struggle that I had, initially, I won't sugarcoat it. I was kind of an angry dad at first because he's defying me. And then you realize that's not where the behavior comes from. it's an inability to meet those expectations that you're setting. It's not defiance. then you just change the expectations and everyone's happy. Yeah, sometimes it's really not as easy as that. Just to be clear. I think sometimes it's that outside looking in as well, isn't it? It's like when you're at a park and your son's running around with no shoes on because he simply does not want to wear shoes. And then you've got those other parents staring at you and you're there like, believe me, if he could be wearing those shoes, they will be on his feet. It's not my choice. Absolutely. I think that's hard as well, because it is that outside judgment. We do think, okay, but I think as you go through the journey, bit by bit, it's like, actually, if my child is happy and safe, and they're thriving, that is the key thing. I don't care what other people think about my parenting style, at the start, I definitely had more like, He's got to fit in this way and do these things, but now the confidence to be able to advocate for their needs to family and friends, to school, to society I think that that comes doesn't it in, in that journey. And the wonderful thing is as well, now starting to see my kids advocating for themselves they're still quite young, but Otto at school, if he's got a new teacher, he'll just go up and go, I think you should know I am autistic with ADHD. it's just so wonderful to hear that from his teachers, you know, to know that, that he's starting that journey of being able to advocate for himself. Absolutely. Cause that's what we want, isn't it? We want our kids to be able to do that. We're just excited. And then we're like a guide on the side of like, they're, they're trying to advocate, but we need to be with them, advocating for them and then, then leading it over with, sharing a little bit, a little snippet, not a whole giveaway, a few chapters, but what's kind of a key point. I mean, Callum, you've, you've said that, changing the way you look at things and seeing things joyfully, et cetera, rather than what should be expected. But is there anything that you want to share a little sneak into your journeys and with those listening now? Yeah, so it kind of starts with, like, the moment where my wife started noticing the signs in our eldest of autism and, how I reacted to that and the reasons why I reacted that way and then how I coped with the change going through it until the point of which eventually, I come to accept it and understand it, which was just as crucial, to be fair, because I think the biggest issue for me was partially ignorance to actually what autism was. So, yeah, that's pretty much what my chapter's about and then getting to the end and just ensuring that my kids thrive and, making the relevant adaptations for them and silly little things like, you know, I've got a trampoline in my front room just because I don't have a garden and Gus likes to bounce. Love it. What about you, Mark? Yeah, I think my journey, I mean, similar and, you know, and I'd go from the sort of that and the realization and the understanding that, ah, there's something different going on here. And also just touch on the, the process of dealing with that, the grief, you know, which isn't very often spoken about, particularly with dads, of how that makes you feel and the understanding, the realization that things are going to be very different, not just for your kids. And they're going to experience the world differently, and it's going to be harder for them, but also for us and, sort of taking that on and just sitting in that for a moment, and then also just reorienting yourself to think, well, they're now, they're in charge now, right? They're leading the way. And all my, my job is not to sort of say, you will do this and this and this, and you're going to go to ballet and you're going to go to but you sort of, you to move away from the understanding that you're going to set the path in their life to actually shifting the focus. Well, I'm basically just following behind them, clearing up and that's okay. You know, I can, I can get rid of some of the big barriers and I can help them, equip them with some skills to deal with, with the challenges that they'll face, but essentially they just need to show us who they are. Yeah. Absolutely. So if there's a dad listening right now, who's, partner is like, Oh, like, maybe we need to start investigating, there's just different maybe behaviors that they're seeing, they've got to look deeper underneath the behaviors, thinking about why right at the start, what's one tip that you would give to that dad? For me, it'd be reach out and talk to other SEND parents, go onto social media and things like that. The SEND community, I think, is absolutely brilliant. There is, there is no one within it that's not willing to open up and share with you the things that they've dealt with and how to help you through like the maze of professionals you have to deal with and all the different forms you've got to fill in because let's face it, our children come with a mountain of paperwork. So yeah, just, just reach out to others and parents would be the first thing I would do because they're the people that are going to help you, not the professionals. People who live it, it's lived experience I think is, is very, you know, useful. In that, isn't it? Yeah. And obviously there are some professionals who care, but some, you will have to keep knocking on that door multiple, multiple, multiple times. Yeah, absolutely. Anywhere. So that's the reality of it, isn't it? And I think from, from my perspective, just to see what's out, there's so much, so much out there from parents of send kids explaining their experiences on social media in particular and what they're going through and sort of listening to that and seeing what other people do with the go, Oh, that's my kid. Oh, I haven't. Yeah. Yeah. I've seen my kid described in that way before. And then you, you sort of start to build up a picture because as we know, autism is massively varied in how it presents. And, even my three kids are wildly different, but they're all pretty much, have the same diagnosis or pending diagnosis in India's case. But it's all out there, you know, and if you start sort of looking and go and joining the dots, you start to build a better understanding of your own child and understand how better to advocate for them, then Diagnosis or not, there are loads of accommodations that you can make for your kids that are going to reduce some of their anxieties that don't. It doesn't cost anything and it just involves slight change of mindset. Yeah, absolutely. And that's, that change of mindset is really important. And like I've said before, that accepting and understanding all of those things can just be from done to you as a parent, like as in order to teach it to whatever, if we shift that mindset of looking, especially, you know, looking at behavior and thinking, Oh, that's naughty behavior or that's whatever behavior. Yeah. Actually, no, okay, what are they trying to tell us, through that behavior is, you know, it's their sensory needs that aren't met, and all of those kind of things, what, what kind of things can I do to make them feel safer to have their sensory needs met, to have their emotional needs met, and therefore then they can access. daily tasks, academic learning, all of those different things. So yeah, mindset shift, I think is very important. And so the book is out today, which is very exciting and yeah, it can be, you can go and purchase it on Amazon right now. And, you know, you will read Mark and Callum's story as well as 12 other dads. including my husband's. And it's interesting because you would, you write it from a very different perspective. I've written blogs and different things like that about with my son, who's autistic and has epilepsy, and it is such a different perspective. So if you, if you've read the journey into send motherhood then, grab the dad's version as well and and have a little read of the both. So, yeah, thank you both for coming and chatting with me on here. Any last thoughts? you know, last encouragement or anything like that you want to share before we sign off? Yeah, just get out and read the book, I'm really excited to read other people's perspectives because I think, I think particularly with dads, we sort of exist in this vacuum, we don't share and we don't really seek other people's You know, emotions very readily. Oh, I think something like this where we, I mean, cause we, we wrote it in a vacuum, we didn't all sit in a room and write it and cry together, but it's quite interesting to see that out there. I'm really, really keen to see the experiences of the other dads and, you know, hopefully other dads who are just starting this journey or who were, already on this, this journey are going to read it and it resonates with them or it gives them a slightly different perspective of what they're going through. Yeah, absolutely. And I think, November is also men's mental health month and, you know, we shouldn't, it's just for them. This is something that opens up discussions and Callum, you were saying about, your mental health and things like that in the book. And I think it's so important like to have that out there to talk about how you actually feel for men. Yeah, absolutely. To normalize it and discussing our emotions and yeah, being open. Definitely. So it's, perfect timing for it to come out in men's mental health month. But also just, grab it, grab it as a Christmas present for any men, uncles, dads, grandparents, whatever that you know in your life that could benefit. Even if you are someone in a fully neurotypical family, it is so helpful to then be able to, understand, life and how, how the difference is there. Because, you know, I see it in my two kids, for example, potentially one is neurotypical, one's neurodivergent. So you see the different ways that society, and friends and all of those different things. So therefore, if you have not, if you are someone listening and actually haven't, got a neurodivergent child or disabled child or anything that, you still get the book because it's so So important to read other people's perspectives for sure. Thank you guys. remember every Wednesday, a new episode that comes out. This is a special one on a different day. For every Wednesday, there's a new episode of conversations with an SEND mom make sure you follow along on Instagram. See you later. Bye. Thanks for having us.