Education and Neurodiversity: Nicole Bateman chats with Charlotte Mountford

In this episode, I'm joined by the brilliant Charlotte Montford; educator, specialist autism support teacher, and founder of Badger Education. Charlotte shares how a volunteering experience at university sparked a lifelong passion for inclusive education, and how both her professional journey and personal experience raising neurodivergent children have shaped the work she does today.

We talk openly about the emotional rollercoaster of parenting, the frustration of delayed diagnoses, and why it’s so important to recognise each child as a unique individual. Charlotte’s perspective is rooted in deep understanding, and her work is all about helping educators feel confident and supported in making a real difference.

What We Cover:

• How Charlotte’s early experience in a special school influenced her career
• What it’s like navigating the system both as a parent and professional
• The power (and pressure) of being an advocate when things don’t feel right
• Why Charlotte set up Badger Education and the kinds of support it offers
• Real talk about autism, assumptions, and the importance of truly knowing the child in front of you
• Practical ways educators can create more inclusive learning spaces

Follow Nicole on www.instagram.com/conversationswithasendmum for exclusive peeks to weekly episodes. Please do send feedback and rate this podcast to help it reach those who would benefit.

Check out our Season 3 sponsor Rachel's 3 R's Subscription Box: Dedicated to helping SEND mums feel calmer and more relaxed by providing a box of products and online support for self-care. Follow on www.instagram.com/rachelsthreerssubscriptionbox and use the code NICOLE10 for 10% off your first order at https://rachel-s-three-r-s.subbly.me/

Check out our Season 1 and 2 sponsor The Super Sensory Squad who support kids in understanding the eight sensory systems and emotional regulation using their penguin squad at: www.thesupersensorysquad.com and www.instagram.com/thesupersensorysquad

Transcript

2:09

Hello, and welcome to conversations with an SEND Mom with your host Nicole Bateman. And today I am joined by Charlotte Mountford from Badger Education, who is a mom of three. So Charlotte, welcome. Thanks. Great to be here. Very good to have you. So, first of all, would love to know your connection to the SEND neurodivergent community, please. So I was thinking about this before I came on, and it kind of goes back quite a long way. So when I was at university in my last year of university, I was desperately looking for modules to do. That were coursework based rather than exam based.'cause I was not an exam person, and so I found from the education department, which was not what I was studying at all, they had a module called Students into Schools, and it was just about. Volunteering into local schools and then doing little projects with them. And I got placed in a special needs school, and that was the first sort of experience I had of it, and I just absolutely loved it. It was my favorite bit of the week going in each week. So then from there, when I graduated, I worked first in a speech and language school as a support assistant, and then I thought about training as a speech therapist. So I worked in a speech therapy clinic for a while as an assistant, but then I decided it was really the classroom situation that I loved. So I went on to do my teacher training and I went straight back into special needs schools straight away. That was where I loved to be and where I wanted to be. So that was like over 20 years ago that I started my teaching and then our first child arrived seven weeks premature. So I was still in school when I went into labor. And I guess from that special needs background, I was. Really aware that that might mean he would have additional needs of some kind, but actually he pretty much reached all his milestones as expected, a little bit delayed like you would expect for a premature baby. But he did really well. Then when our second came along, so our eldest was about two and a half. He, our second was just completely different and I knew people always say sort of, when did you really realize? But. With him. Honestly, from just a few months old, I knew just something was different and our eldest was kind of the only baby really that I'd had any knowledge of. So it's always a bit like, well, is it just sibling difference or is there something more? And with our second, I wasn't in a great place with my mental health. He didn't sleep very well, and I am not good without sleep. And just it all became, uh, really hard. I suppose he still sort of. Whilst now I look back and developmental milestones are quite, can be quite controversial, can't they? But I guess they're there as a kind of a marker to support people, but he just kind of always scraped them. So he'd kind of be on the cusp of like, is he there or is he not there? And I remember he had like. The one year speech and language sort of checkup and they said, oh, we'll come again in six months and just see where he is at. Yeah. Uh, but by then he was absolutely fine, but I was still concerned and that was always just brushed away. And I think even really well-meaning friends would be like, yeah, but he will catch up everyone. Everyone wants it to be right, don't they? Yeah. So they want to reassure you, but that kind of undermines your natural instinct of I don't necessarily need it to be all right. I just need you to recognize it doesn't feel right. Yeah. Um, yeah. Honesty. Yeah. And then he was, he's a summer born, right at the end of July. And so when it came to thinking about him starting school, we had long conversations, me and my husband. About, do we delay him a year? Is he ready? Do we do this? Do we do that? Where do we end up with it? And in the end, partly because in our area it was really difficult to get a delayed entry and partly because we thought, actually maybe I. The structure of a different place would support him. So we, we went with him going to school at starting with his peers, I guess. And then even at school they would say, oh, he's got lots of friends, he's always part of a group. Everything's fine. And again, all sort of our worries were just brushed off a little bit. Not really. Treated with res, not with respect, but it was also partly by then I was working as a specialist, autism support teacher, so I was doing outreach into different schools. Yeah. And what I would often get was, you are looking for it, you know too much about it. You are expecting it to be there. And I, it just used to infuriate me because I would say, well, I never thought it with our first, like I've never wondered that, but also. Parents don't want things to be difficult for their children. What we want, all we want as a parent is for them to be happy and healthy and thriving. And I just thought, why do people think I'm trying to put barriers in the way that aren't there? But it was so undermining and. Really, really difficult. Anyway, our third is only 17 months. There's only 17 months between our second and our third, and he was a really different character. Again, much more confident, and I don't know if intelligence is the right word, but he would like work things out from when he was really tiny when he was first starting to crawl at about eight or nine months. He would know exactly what the other two wanted in a particular situation and would just make a beeline for, I can, I can get this, or I can disrupt this. And it was so like, not like the other two either. Yeah. And then we added into the mix that when, so they were eight, six, and four, so just before the youngest would've started reception, we moved overseas. So we moved down to the Falklands. I went there as a special needs teacher. We wanted to travel before they were sort of really settled in school and before it got to, you know, exams and secondary school and things. And I suppose in some ways that was a real, that was when. Other people started to see our middle ones difficulties more, obviously, I guess partly because we'd had that huge change. Yeah. And also he was going into year two and that curriculum steps up, and so then professionals there started to say, yeah, we can see what you're saying. Yes, there's something different. There's something that he's finding more challenging. So we actually went through the diagnostic process for him over there. So. It was quite the same process, the same professionals involved in things, but not those huge waiting lists. Not that big. Yeah. Time. But given that we sort of first wondered if there were anything different when he was three, four months old, he didn't get a diagnosis till he was nine. So I mean, that's huge. And when he was first diagnosed, I distinctly remember he was going away on Cub Camp for two nights and I drove to drop him and our oldest off. And on the drive back, we decided we wouldn't talk to him about it before. He went away that very weekend, but on the drive back I just had to pull to the side of the road and I just absolutely broke my heart. And then I felt awful, like, uh, am I feeling like this is a bad thing? But it wasn't that at all. It was just that I wished. He'd known sooner. We'd known sooner. You go through all the things you would've done differently and all the things other people might have done differently if they'd known. And yeah, then our young, so then our youngest had a really tricky time. He's very, very academically able. When he hit year four, the social side of things just suddenly sort of fell apart for him and he would get very frustrated and very, he was always very physical, whereas our middle one's more. Internal and kind of anxious and worries internally and shuts down. Yeah, our youngest is very outward, like everything comes out right, and he went then through the diagnosis process as well, and he's also diagnosed autistic. I still wonder if there's possible A DHD alongside but. We haven't really explored that in the moment. He's getting really good support. So then we up he them again by moving back to the UK about three years ago. But actually knowing all that we knew about them, then that move was much easier'cause we could plan for things more easily. And the schools they're back in here are really supportive of all of them. So at the minute we're in a really good place with that. And when we moved back, I went back to being a specialist. Teacher in a large local authority. So I still work between all different schools, specialist provisions and mainstream schools. But now, yeah, I'm in the process of setting up, well, I'm setting up badger education because I want to be able, I love the job I do, and I love supporting teachers. To know the best things to give to their pupils. But working for local authority has loads of ties to it, obviously. Yeah. You know, and there are certain things you can and can't do and I, and I want to be able to work a bit more flexibly. Right. To give that support to schools and teachers.'cause there are brilliant staff out there. I think. Yeah. It's really easy. The whole system is in a really bad place, but. We have to think about those individuals at the moment. What can we do right now for the children that are in front of those teachers and people go into teaching'cause they want to help children. Definitely. And if you can give them tools and skills to do that, then all the better. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. I think you're right. Absolutely. And there's so many, you know, when if so when I was training, I, I know it's a while back now, but you know, the training there, even for someone that I know who went through training last year is there's still not necessarily the training that equips and actually. That's not the teacher's fault. That is the system and the training, and actually thinking about how we can best equip. Because if we don't have, if we don't know things or understand things like sensory differences and all of those things, then how can we best cater for the kids? Yeah. In front of us as a teacher, we can't. Not at all. And I think with the. Level of need that's coming through now into mainstream schools. If those teachers don't have that knowledge, then yeah, like you say, how can they possibly manage and teach the children that they're, they're presented with each day and that support, that support and knowledge from them for parents as well, you know? Yes, they're teaching the children, but they work with parents too, and. If they don't have that understanding and knowledge and parents are coming to them and saying, look, we are having these struggles, or How can we support with this? They, they can't offer them the support either. No, absolutely. So, yeah, so it's great. It sounds great that you are gonna be, well, you already support the teachers anyway in the, but you are gonna then be able to have the freedom to do it even more without restrictions. And I, I really want to work a little bit more in depth. You know, often we're quite light touch, we, we go in and do a couple of visits and then have to come, come away. But yeah, actually looking at things a bit more in depth and, and giving those staff. That much better knowledge so that they can work with who they've got in their class. Yeah. And so what do you think is the most important thing for teachers to understand and know? If you, if you could be one thing. So that's hard, isn't it? Yeah. Um, I think it's really difficult to get across the individual nature of autism and I think there's still so many misconceptions out there and just those stereotypical views. And actually what I really try and encourage teachers to do is get to know that individual yes. You know, that diagnosis maybe, or if you are wondering if it's that diagnosis, that's all well and good. Actually get to know them, make a relationship with'em as an individual so that you know their strengths and where they need more support. I think it really comes home in little things like that narrative at the minute of sort of how autistic girls present and actually getting across that. Sometimes there are autistic boys who mask just as much an as an autistic girl might, you know, and those real. Misunderstandings of like, well, all autistic girls will therefore be like that. And I think a couple of other things that often come up that are kind of connected still often come across. They don't want friends. Autistic children don't really want friends. They're quite happy by themselves and actually both of us. That was one of the things they most wanted was friends. They want those social connections. My son too. He wants that. Yeah, he, he, they definitely do. And yes, there are times when they wanna be by themselves. Yeah, absolutely. But they want those connections and they want those relationships, but also that they don't necessarily have to develop. What we would see as social communication skills in order to have those relationships that actually the way they communicate needs to be understood by other people just as much. Yes. And our middle boy struggled for a couple of years with making friendships, but now. He's connected with people who really understand him and his interests, and it's so lovely to see them.'cause their friendship is absolutely genuine. But at times, like I get, I absolutely cringe sometimes. Like they can just walk away from each other without saying a big goodbye or like, yeah. And, and I always say, oh God, you're being so rude. But they're not, they're, they're fine with it. So you just have to go, oh, that's, that's fine. That's their way of doing it. But actually. What I work on as well in schools, or what I like to really highlight to teachers is teaching that whole class that you've all got different needs. Yeah. And I, as the teacher will support you with those, whatever they be. So if on this one day. I know Alan in this corner needs movement break. He's gonna get a 10 minute movement break. That doesn't mean you all need that, but when you, Sarah over here needs support with your handwriting, that's what you are gonna get. And actually really that's so important to really actively teach to the children that you've all got different needs and strengths. And we will support all of those in the ways that we can, but that doesn't mean everyone needs the same thing all of the time. No, I, I think that's such a key point to get across, like you said to everyone, because I think there's a lot of focus on like, okay, how can we support this child individually? But actually you need to educate other people. I. To be able to understand the different language processing, the different adult language processing rather than reciprocal. Yeah. And stuff like that. Because you see, you see it, you see it in, I see it in interactions just generally in life, even as adults. If, if someone's coming along and they're, they're processing language in a certain way and they're not as reciprocal. Then other people kind of don't wanna be stuck in that situation. Yeah. They walk away and you're like, no, they're just trying to connect with you. Yeah. Like they're sharing something that's really important and you need to listen and, and yes, it may not be as back and forth as a communication as people expect. However, this is such an important connection and communication and I wish that, yeah, everyone would. Understand how important it is to understand the differences in communication, the differences in social interaction, but that not bad. They're just differences to what you're used to. Yeah. And it's not negative because obviously on, on all the forms, it's always like it can come across as these are the Yeah, these are the deficits. Yeah. Or whatever, which is just, just makes me sad. Actually it's, it's differences and we've just written a book about understand to help kids understand sensory processing differences. Yeah. Everyone has unique sensory processing differences and that's okay. Yeah. Like that's the point of the book because you wanna educate all people to be accepting of differences. And I think children are so. Open to all those things, aren't they? Yeah. And like often as an adult, remember when mine were quite little, we were on a bus and someone came on in a wheelchair. Yeah. And one of them said, oh, why? Why is she in a chair? Yeah. And I remember trying to go into real detail about it all. Yeah. And he just needed an answer of like, well, maybe she can't walk like we can. And he was happy with that. And I was there like giving it all, all this extra and he was like moving on to, oh, what's that bird out the window? Yeah. But they just take those things on as Oh, okay. It's, it's a difference. That's fine. That's fine. Yeah. And actually, if we could teach that from, from really young, yeah. It would just become part of. Society far more. And I think often schools, you know, one of the barriers is, oh, but if we give that to one person, we'll have to give it to all of them. And it's like, well, not if you educate as to why that person needs it. Yeah. And you don't have to go into detail about private diagnoses or anything else, but just, yeah, that constant message of we all have different needs in all sorts of different areas, and how do we support each other with that. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's the thing. It's like, I like fluffy things put on my fluffy jumper that helps me regulate, like when I'm feeling stressed. Whereas other people might seek movement, like, and they might wanna move around when they're feeling stressed. Go for a run. My husband likes going for a run. I did not wanna go for a run when I'd stress out, stress me out more. But like, it's just like those simple things, if we can say that to kids, like you said, it's, they're like, oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. With your work going forward and how you're supporting, what are some of the things that you could say to parents to help them also, you know, feel, if they're feeling in the depths of it, not being able to, to work well with schools and things like that, how would you, what would you say to them? So I think it's a, it. Yeah. Unfortunately it's still such a challenging area, isn't it? Yeah. I really try and highlight to schools to really recognize the importance of parent knowledge and that of, of building those collaborative relationships. And I think that's key for parents as well. And I think it's about finding that person that does. Recognize your views and and validate that. And sometimes it's not necessarily the teacher. It might be that there's a TA that really understands your child or is happy to listen to you on a morning work with that person. Or even when you pick up the phone to the office, if that person's receptive. You know, how can you build a relationship that way or find, there were meetings that I ended up taking. An advocate along with me and, and not anyone I paid, or there are people who do great work in that area. And absolutely if you need that, go for it and find the right person for you. But even if it's taking a friend so that they're hearing the same things as you, because I think sometimes in those pressured situations, particularly, I dunno if I'm worse for it, I can go to meetings as a professional and manage them absolutely fine and support families and get what's needed. When it's my own children, I suddenly feel I. Completely inadequate, but also you're, it's that emotional side, isn't it? That you are not necessarily at your best with listening. You are not necessarily gonna note everything down. You might remember things slightly differently or slightly incorrectly, and actually having someone else who's been there. To kind of debrief with afterwards or go back to even week on what was it they said about this or who said they were gonna follow up with that. It, it's really, really helpful and you're absolutely entitled to take someone along with you, even if you say to them, look, I don't want you to ask any questions, or, I just want you to be there. Having that support is really helpful anyway. But also, yeah, having that person to check in with afterwards, what did they say? Or even if you think, I felt that that was said in a particular way. Actually, sometimes someone who's not in the heat of it can say, I don't think it was, or, yeah, maybe it was, and then we need to do something about that. So finding that support where you can, and I think having here in the UK and then abroad, I found, I just found so much support online. There are so many brilliant, brilliant groups and you might not ever find someone with exactly the same. Story as you, but you will find so many people who understand and who you don't have to explain everything from the start again. It's so nice to just know that they understand what you are on about. Yeah. Or that when you say, my evening was a nightmare because we couldn't anyone in bed or whatever it be. You say it to some parents who don't have experience of that and you know full well that they. You don't know what the extent of that was. Yeah. But when you are with your tribe who really do know you, you just feel like you don't have to explain it in depth, but people really understand. They get it. So yeah, reach out and find those groups. And it might be something local to you, but if there's not there, that online space now is so helpful for so many people. Definitely it stop you feeling like you are the only one, or you're going mad or. Yeah, there are other people out there who do get it. Oh, definitely. Absolutely. And that's, that's why I started this podcast as well, so that people can hear from different people and be like, oh yeah, I resonate with that. Or like, this person can support me with this. Or there's signposting to different people and actually sleep. There was one earlier this season talking about neuro divergent, you know, sleep for neuro divergent kids, um, which has got many golden nuggets in it. So. Therefore, if you're listening to this near the end of season three, go back to episode one of season three and have a look at sleep. Definitely, definitely. I chat to chat to a specialist. So, and I think the other thing, as a parent, I really have to remind myself a lot is. To really be kind to the person who I was in those early days. I didn't before we had the diagnosis, but even when we did, you don't always get things right and it's so easy to look back and think, I should never have done that, or I should have approached that differently. Yeah, but you can only deal with what you know at the time, added in all of your own emotions and everything in every single moment. You can only ever do the best thing in that time. I think yeah, just be a bit kind to the person you were before you knew what you know today. Like we're all learning all of the time and there's no point going back over things. You did the best you could in that moment and that was okay. Yeah, that definitely, that's a such a great piece of advice.'cause we put ourselves, we put a lot of mom guilt, parent guilt on ourselves thinking we could have done better, et cetera. But actually we are doing what we can. We are in this moment right now and we're we. Ultimately we're trying to help our kids to thrive. Definitely. You know, definitely. Thank you so much, Charlotte. Really great to chat with you. People wanna connect with you further. Where can they find you? So on Instagram, I'm just Badger education. And then on Facebook, I'm Badger Education Hyen Inclusive Support. Okay. I've got a private professionals group on Facebook as well. If anyone's in education and would like to be a part of that, they'll find that through my main Facebook page. And I've got a couple of free downloads as well. One's for education staff, around five adaptations you can make in your classroom without any expense, without, you know, buying in programs or anything. And the other one's just a bit of a discussion about. Zones of regulation and how it works or sometimes doesn't for autistic children. And again, that's quite useful maybe for parents if school are mentioning it as a possibility. Yeah. Just to have a look at and see if you think it would work for your child or not. Yeah. Sounds very useful. Sounds really useful. And they can be found on your page and yeah, link links are there and everything. Yeah. Excellent. Very useful resources and so if you're an education professional, there's a group for you and also some resources, parents or, or professionals. So, yeah. So thank you so much, Charlotte, for coming on. Remember that every Wednesday there is a new episode of the podcast, do like and share. And put a review.'cause that helps reach more people who need to feel like they're not alone in this parenting journey. So have a lovely week.