Championing inclusion through art and creative activities: Nicole Bateman chats with Julie Bevan from Dot Kids

In this episode of Conversations with a SEND Mum, Nicole Bateman is joined by Julie Bevan, the franchisor of Dot Kids, a children’s art franchise with a heart and mission rooted in creativity, confidence and inclusion.

Julie shares her lived experience of navigating DLA forms and EHCP processes for her own child, and why that journey reshaped everything about how she sees children, families and the importance of truly inclusive activity spaces.

We talk about why art is such a powerful vehicle for nurturing wellbeing, expression and identity. Julie explains how Dot Kids creates environments that celebrate uniqueness, reduce pressure and support every child to take part in ways that feel safe and joyful for them.

We also discuss Julie’s incredible recognition as Inclusivity Champion in Franchising and why this award meant so much after a challenging year for her family. It represents not only her dedication but the real change she is making across the activity sector.

Julie and Nicole chat about the work they do together through The Friendly SEND Advisor, supporting franchisees and activity providers to become more inclusive in authentic and practical ways. Because the goal is simple. Every child deserves to feel they belong.

Highlights of the episode
• Julie’s personal journey through DLA and EHCP applications
• How lived experience drives her passion for genuine inclusion
• The role of art in supporting mental health and creative expression
• Winning Inclusivity Champion in Franchising at The Disruptive Franchise Awards and what it means
• The importance of training and co-production with families
• Why the children’s activity sector can lead the way to welcome all children

Connect with Julie and Dot Kids
Website: dotkids.co.uk
Facebook and Instagram: @dotkidsart

Follow Nicole on www.instagram.com/conversationswithasendmum for exclusive peeks to weekly episodes. Please do send feedback and rate this podcast to help it reach those who would benefit. Nicole is The Friendly SEND Advisor for children's activity providers and tutors helping them create inclusive sessions for all children.

Check out our Season 3 and 4 sponsor Rachel's 3 R's Subscription Box: Dedicated to helping SEND mums feel calmer and more relaxed by providing a box of products and online support for self-care. Follow on www.instagram.com/rachelsthreerssubscriptionbox and use the code NICOLE10 for 10% off your first order at https://rachel-s-three-r-s.subbly.me/

Check out our Season 1 and 2 sponsor The Super Sensory Squad who support kids in understanding the eight sensory systems and emotional regulation using their penguin squad at: www.thesupersensorysquad.com and www.instagram.com/thesupersensorysquad

Transcript

2:10

Hello and welcome to Conversations with the Send Mom Podcast with me as your host, Nicole Bateman. Today I am joined by the lovely Julie Bevin from Kids. Welcome Julie. Thanks, Nicole. We've been trying to do this, talking about doing this for so long, haven't we? Yeah. So it's really nice that it's finally here. Yeah. I feel like this is just gonna be like a conversation with a friend. Well, it's, that's, and, we've had many conversations, haven't we? Over, over the year. And, you are definitely someone who fully gets it and understands, uh, from a lot of different perspectives. So can you share with the people listening, what is your connection to the neurodivergent community? Sure. So we are a neurodivergent family. My, I have two daughters and my eldest is autistic. Possibly we're wondering A DHD too. And so we're gonna go down that pathway of assessment and all of that. But by, and I think this is so common by researching and reading all the things about my daughter and trying to understand her, I am pretty sure that I am, I would say definitely a DHD, possibly autistic myself. And then we have a younger daughter who as far as we're concerned, as we can see at the moment, is neurotypical. So, yeah, so we are a real mix, but I think it's so common, isn't it, when you, you start exploring Yeah. The issues that your child is experiencing, you suddenly realize so much about yourself. Yeah. Yeah, definitely so many of us, like, I, well, yeah, it's nearly a year since I got my A DHD diagnosis, but I had no, I, before I looked at the brain, before I looked at, all of that research, like you said, you, I wouldn't have known. So there's so many people getting diagnosed, especially women aren't there, thirties, forties, fifties, sixties, et cetera. So can you tell us a little bit about your journey as a parent as well? Yeah, so our daughter, who's autistic is our eldest daughter. And I think speaking to other parents and carers when their eldest is neurodivergent, you don't realize too soon because that's just them. And of course it is just them. But things started showing, started to be apparent, and I think. So she is 14 now, and I think there's been a huge change in understanding and conversation around autism, particularly in the autistic profile for girls. So even as when she was three, I don't think it was so talked about, was it? It just really wasn't. So it's been a real journey, a real learning curve and various points throughout her childhood. I've started thinking there's something slightly different here. There's something, she thinks slightly differently. She often had a lot, still does, has a lot of friendship issues. As I've realized with, when you're neurodivergent you often flock to other neurodivergent colleagues, friends or whatever. So, and she had a habit of getting into, um, friendships, a trio of friendships, which when they're little and it was always quite problematic. And at various points in her school life, I had spoken to teachers and said, do you think, what do you think? And. Majority of the narrative, particularly primary, was, well, what difference does it make? Why do you wanna label her and all of this? And of course, at the time I didn't realize how things would develop or. And maybe part of me just thought, actually, yeah, you're right. I don't wanna label her. And I wanted to believe the advice that I was being given. I don't know. In hindsight now, I really wish that we had got an assessment way earlier than we did. And not been fobbed off on that and not been fobbed off on applying for an EHCP. And you know, we had situations where she was in year six, it was eastern. I remember talking to the, no, she wasn't year six. She was in year two because she was at an infant and juniors. And, I remember talking to the Senco and she was like, oh, you can see how it is at the next school. And of course, she didn't want the paperwork, did she? No. That, that, see why she spoke to the school again in year four. Then I think we hit the pandemic. The pandemic is where it really presented itself the most. Which is unusual, I think,'cause a lot of neurodivergent children, I think loved the pandemic because they didn't have to go to school. They were at home. But actually for our daughter, all the anxieties just presented themselves hugely and that whole. Online learning. She hated that. We, we could see straight away that wasn't gonna work, so we didn't do it. So, yeah. So it's been a, a huge journey as any parent of, um, a child with additional needs will totally understand and are experiencing, I'm sure. Yeah, definitely. That so many people listen and, to the, to schools, to, senco because they're meant to. Fully understand this and meant to fully support, et cetera. And so, it's really tricky, especially, you know, when you look back at the beginning of, of the journey of, of that and when, you know, when I look back, I'm like, actually, yeah, right at the start, I, I didn't, I, I trusted people and it's, it's very sad to say like, I don't really trust some people now, but the, but that is the reality of many. Many parents, isn't it where you are trying to say like, oh, should we get this support? Should we get that in place? And actually you know, people are told, and especially with girls, like you said, girls, the conversation has really only began, you know, in the, in the last few years. So that, that's additionally tricky when you're trying to say something to people in authority, et cetera. And how, what kind of things would you say to yourself back then and to parents who are kind of, right, the start of their journey. What would you say to them? So, so many pieces I would talk to myself differently now. So first of all, and it's sad to say it, but. Don't be fobbed off. Don't you know? And if you think that you are, I actually seriously believe that every child with additional needs should have an EHCP. So we have been told all the way along the journey, even after her diagnosis, she doesn't need one. And, and I also thought that you could only apply via the school and the schools would say. We're not gonna do that. Well, first of all, they would say, you will get rejected. Yeah. And then they would say, and we won't support it. Yeah. That happened all the time. Even when our daughter was off school for huge periods of time, months and months with extreme sensory issues, extreme anxiety due to the mainstream school setup. And even then, the Kos were saying to us. We will not support your EHCP. You will not get accepted. And I didn't realize that as a parent you can apply for an EHCP and my, I so wish that and you can also apply for an EHCP before a diagnosis. No one tells you this stuff and I so wish we had had an EHCP in place in year six.'cause that transition going into secondary and my, whenever I meet people now who are parents of a child with additional needs, even if things are going well, my advice is apply for it because you'll have your annual reviews and things. Will change and hopefully they'll change for the better or stay the same. But there is a possibility that things may change for the worse, particularly if they're going up into secondary in mainstream. Yeah, and if you've got that already in place, because we are now going to put down the pathway of applying. Yeah. She's 14. That HCP will hold till she's 25. But we also know, as I'm sure that. Everyone who's listening knows, eh, HCPs take a long time to come through. Yeah. And what happens is you apply and pretty much everyone gets rejected. Yeah. A lot. And then it's survival of the fittest and then it's appeal, and then it's always go to tribunal. And what I'm hearing so often is the local authorities, they basically want to. Get you to your last moment of energy. And if you give up, brilliant. And if often they accept it the day before tribunal or they don't even turn up at tribunal. Yeah. And so we are aware that we've got a year before we can get the CHCP through for her. So yeah. Yeah, that's my biggest advice and my biggest regret that we didn't do that sooner. Yeah, like it's so, it's so hard and with the reforms potentially coming with the white paper as well, the legal rights'cause the HCPs obviously give the legal rights and a lot of us are afraid that. The legal rights will go, and then what happens? There was the Kelly Bright documentary, uh, the Panorama, and there was one of the, one of the dads said, it's a tale of fatigue. Or like, it's the, it's kind of seeing who can, who gets too tired to fight. And that's what they count on. They count on that fatigue. They count on doing that. We got rejected. To assess, assess and rejected to, implement as well. So we got rejected twice. But actually, especially for the needs assessments, there's only two legal criteria that they may have send needs, and they may need an EHCP. So they may mean that actually the local authority has to have evidence that they definitely don't need it. And so therefore, you know with that, when they sent that, I sent an email saying, these are the two criteria in law. Can you tell me then why my son definitely doesn't need an EHCP?'cause that's what you've gotta prove and they said we can't. So they overturned it. So my biggest tip for people who get that no to assess is look at those two criteria. IPSA has is a great place to have a look at and then send an email quoting those two legal criteria and saying, tell me why. They definitely don't. Ironically. So my son is on the second highest banding of money. So we went from no, to second highest banding. So it is, it's not even like he went to that first banding where you could say, oh, maybe it's on the line. Actually, they just said no. And then, yeah, then we overturned it. I was very fortunate, we didn't have to go to. Tribunal, we went to mediation, it was resolved, but it's stressful. That was, you know, when we were fighting for, it took us 51 weeks to get Oh, so just under a year, even though it's meant to be 20. So yeah, definitely getting ahead of the game if your child is younger, et cetera. And I think also what. Is so wrong as well. And you will know this, that your application is naturally stronger if you've got reports that are attached. Yeah. So we have been advised to get an educational psychologist report, a speech and language report, and also occupational therapist. Well, I've been getting quotes for those. And they're 1800 pounds for some of them. Yeah. They're not all that, you know. If you are listening to this and thinking, oh my gosh, I can't afford that. There are cheaper ones. We have found an amazing person that's actually doing one for 300 and will let us pay in installments, but I think she's incredibly rare. The other thing that we have found invaluable is, and I think this is a growing trend of often autistic parents and carers that have been through this situation have set up a charity or a CIC to support. Other parents. So in our local area we are in Kent. We have regular meetings with A CIC called the Autism Apprentice, and they're incredible. They get lottery funding and bits and books of money and then they can give free access and free meetings to parents like us, giving us the advice that we need. It's through them that we recently discovered that we could also get funding for an independent school for our daughter. So we never realized that. We thought the only way that we could get funding would be for what would be branded a specialist school. And that was something we didn't know. And I think back nine months ago, we were looking at a particular independent school and knew that it was really the right choice for her, but that we couldn't afford it. And had we realized back then we could have started the process, but we didn't know, or if we'd had the EHCP in place, then maybe it would've all happened quicker. So I think it's really important to, as best you can get on those Facebook groups where everyone's supporting, everyone's asking questions. Listening to your podcast, talking to people like you and me talking to other parents because I've got such a lovely network of friends and we all have children with similar-ish additional needs, and we're all at different levels of the process and we can all talk to one another and support one another. The other thing, sorry, full of pearls of wisdom today. The other thing I think is really important to know is as well, to apply for disability living allowance. Now, we were told we couldn't apply for that till six months after our daughter's diagnosis. I don't even think that is true, but I sat on the. The form,'cause it's like a 50 page form and because I'm neurodivergent, I wanted to do it perfectly. I didn't wanna get rejected, so I sat on it for two years. I did not do it. We now get DLA for her. But that form is there. It's such an upsetting form. The questions that they ask. Yeah. Bring up so many emotions. And I think if you can sit down with another parent. And fill out the form together and be together to do it. That's another definitely, yeah. Really invaluable. Yeah. I said to one of my friends who did it recently, I said, look, before you start, please, when you write a list of all the amazing things that your child does and is, and and all of those things, and have it there next to you while you are doing the form so that you can see about the amazing strengths, the amazing, everything. And then while you are writing about, the struggles and things like that, so you can see that. So it doesn't get too just one sided. Yeah, because you've gotta think, you've gotta apply, you've got to fill out that form on like the worst possible day. As in, that's what you've gotta think about your child. And that's why you need those positives visually in front of you to see the amazingness of your child as well. Totally. It's, it's really tough in an out form. It really is, but it's worth it because if you think that you, this is the other thing. If you are tempted to think, oh, well, I. I don't deserve it or I shouldn't be applying. Even if you are not paying for extra therapies or assessments or anything, think about things like the amount of seamless types you have to buy. Mm-hmm. The amount of clothing that, there's one particular pair of pajamas that my daughter would only wear and then they stop doing them, so then I'm trying to buy them on eBay and all of that stuff. And maybe they can't get public transport to their school. So then you are driving, there's all these hidden costs that when you have a child of additional needs, I think I read something recently, it was something like, it costs 10, I wanna say 10,000 pounds or something a year to bring up a child, but it's on average 20,000 for a child with additional needs. And I think maybe those figures are wrong, but it's double the amount. Yeah. Maybe that's over a period of years or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Yeah, absolutely. And you can see that, like you said, with all the different things. So this, your lived experience has helped you and inspired you in creating safe spaces through your business for children. Can you tell me a little bit about that? Yeah, sure. So I run a business called Kids, and it's. Inspiration. So what we do is we look at artists, we talk about how the art makes us feel. We talk about how is the artist feeling at the time, and then we create artwork using that as a springboard. So every child creates something unique. So it's not about perfection, it's not about copying, you see these, I mean, they're lovely, but you know these, every child holding up the Van Gogh, starry night. Literally there's no freedom, no creative freedom there. And equally, if children that come to us are bored by that idea, go off and do something else. Do your own thing, and it's wonderful. And we have, I would say our cohort is at least 25% neurodivergent, I think neurodivergent. People are so creative anyway, so it really lends itself and yeah, it's just a, we, so we, we teach some technique but not much. It's really creative freedom. We have a lot of discussion. We chat while we do things, so that can be really beautiful, and creating, like you say, a safe space where a child can come to us and they have total autonomy. We are very, we often run after school clubs, so we have a lot of children come to us that love up, but they've been at school all day and they have been masking. And particularly maybe a child with a DHD, like I, I think of one particular. Boy that used to come to me, he'd been coming maybe since year three, and he would come in and he would be, he would need to walk around. He would need to kind of, and he was so, you, like, the other kids would be like, he's gonna be disruptive. He's the noisy one. And he believed that he was the naughty one. And we treat the kids with total respect and understanding. And sometimes things do get a little bit outta hand, but we have a little chat and we, my narrative to them always is, I love you being here and you love being here. We need to try and make this work. I totally understand if you need to find a way to blow off steam, but maybe like, kicking the chairs not that hot and, and we get through it and, you see a difference in these children. I think one of my li we always have these absolute magical moments in every session. There's always a session. I come home and I say, how lovely. That was amazing. This particular lad, he had been coming for four years and at the end of year in, in year six, he was due to go up to secondary and, uh. All the girls were like giving me these like beautiful cards and all of this, and he hadn't done one and I didn't expect it, but he kind of rattled one off in the session and he just said, you are amazing. And he gave it to me and he said, do you remember when I first came in year three? And you know, I really didn't wanna come and, and, and. But this has been great. And then we sat and he was doing drawing and he would often say to me, can you come and sit and help me? But he didn't actually want help. He just wanted to chat. Yeah. And he would be drawing him like, what's secondary school like? And we'd chat and, and he would discuss all his fears and creativity has that, it's. You can draw. You're not sitting in an intense situation where you're face to face. You're just, you're drawing and you're just having a chat. And also the children express themselves through the art. So we get a lot of amazing things. Bullying or, or, feeling lonely or friendship issues and things through their art. So it's really magical. Yeah. Really wonderful. Yeah. And that's, and you actually got recognized for your inclusivity as well, didn't you? I know. I've got, I've got little award with me. Yeah. So, and you were there, weren't you? Honestly, we have had such a year as a family, so I was finalist for this inclusivity champion in franchising.'cause we now franchise dockets. And when Stacey who runs the award just even mentioned inclusivity champion, I could feel like I hadn't even. They hadn't even said my name at that point. I could feel my eyes starting to well up because it just meant so much. And then when she said my name as a winner. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and so yeah. Much tears and many tears. Yeah. And it really meant a lot. It really meant a lot because our daughter had been, has been out of school the whole year and uh, to be able to do that. To offer an inclusive space within mainstream school. Yeah. Is really important. So yeah, it was a lovely thing to receive. Nice. Yeah. Yeah. Very well deserved. Very. Oh, thank you. Thank you. That's what we love, that's why through the Friendly Send Advisor, the work that I do, it comes from the heart of. Trying to make sure that children's activity riders and tutoring, that whole space is a safe space for all kids, including neuro divergent children, those with other disabilities. And again, you have that, it comes from that lived experience heart where you wanna create that space, for in doc kids, for the kids to be able to come unmask and be themselves, be creative and actually, have, yeah, have that space and time to be themselves. Yes. Amazing. Totally. And also wanna thank you because I've obviously done your inclusivity CPD course and various courses with you. So I've learned so much from you. And I think also what's been really great working with you and also tomorrow from Dot and Stripe, when you did the inclusivity marketing course, which is something that I'd not really thought about. Telling people this is what we do. Oh, we do it, but we're not gonna tell anyone about it. Because that's so reassuring for parents who want to sign their child up. Also, really encouraging for other activity providers to go, oh wow, they're doing that. I hadn't thought about that. Maybe I should do that. And then suddenly things will start to get better and better. So yeah. Thank you for that. That's absolutely, it makes me so happy. I'm like, yeah, like when I see different things that come up on social media or when you won the award, when I'm like, yes.'cause then, like you said, people will see you, they'll see what you are doing. Then they'll be like, oh, I want to, maybe I need to make that change. And then it's a ripple effect, isn't it, across the whole children's activity industry, to be like, actually then send parents like ourselves. We'll be able to send our kids to activities and afterschool clubs.'cause a lot of the time, it's really tricky to find the right place where our kids are fully understood. But it's, yeah, it's that ripple effect. So keep advocating for that as the inclusivity champion of franchising and sharing so that parents know Yeah. That you provide that same space. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. Any last kind of. Words of wisdom or encouragement or anything you'd like to end with? It's exhausting. Yeah. Constantly advocating for your child and with the added edition that we all know that it's predominantly generic, so we're probably neurodiverse ourselves. So having our own, neuro spicy brain. Yeah.,'cause that's the thing. You've gotta support yourself. You've also gotta support your child. And I think that's really important. If you can create or get into some kind of community of other, send parents so that you can sit down, have a coffee, or send a text and just say, this has happened today. It's really rubbish. I feel like this. And they'll say, yeah, I know. And do you wanna have a cup of tea? Let's have a hug. Let's have a chat. And they are. So many amazing people on Instagram and TikTok that are talking about this. Maybe adding a bit of sense of humor onto it, and Facebook groups and things. Obviously if sometimes they become overwhelming. Yeah. There's a certain amount of self care as well for yourself because. You cannot support your child if you are rock bottom. And I know that's so easier said than done, but after this I'm going for an hour and a half massage. I really am. Oh, excellent. It. Yeah, I have that bit of self-care once a month and and I go off and I feel terribly guilty doing it, which is ridiculous. But I think if you can do that and then maybe seek out a CIC or a charity that can help you, someone like the Autism Apprentice, because advocating for your child is so, so tricky. But I think just talking to people and knowing that you're not alone Exactly. Is my biggest advice. That and applying for the eh, hcp and the DL Yeah, absolutely. Send you a cup of tea before you do all of those. Yeah. Take some time. But yeah, absolutely. My, my dms on Instagram conversations with Send Mom and the Friendly Send Advisor are open. And if you wanna chat with, Julie, where is the best place to connect with you? So probably Instagram is where I'm most on and I put various little videos up. I'm supposed to transfer them to TikTok. I very rarely do. I'm trying to make that a bit more of. So on Instagram, I'm kids on TikTok. I'm kids Art inspiration. My website is dot Kids co uk. Also, just want a little plug as well. Just wants to say that we also run art, therapeutic Art Nurture sessions in schools. So this is something that we're really pushing forward on, and we want to be in as many schools as possible, working with small groups of children for whole classes and using art as a therapeutic tool for wellbeing and also communication. I'm gonna, I'm gonna look at my little note here. This is recently what I've discovered my daughter has, and apparently lots and lots of autistic people have. Which is basically not being able to understand your feelings, not be able to name them, and it's a huge thing for a lot of people and a lot of children. And creativity and art can really, really help with that. It's just a different way of communicating. So it's something that we're really researching and trying to implement within our therapeutic art nurture sessions. So if you are a school and you are interested in us coming in to do those sessions, please get in contact. We are also, we franchise, so if you would love. A wonderful heart-centered, inclusive business, getting in contact. We're also looking for freelancers as well. We're really growing, so it's really exciting time. So yeah, just get in contact. Yeah. But if you also just wanna chat because we're all going through it, please get in contact. Yeah, absolutely. It's great. I love the, I love to see you growing. I, like I said to you, I think a few weeks ago I was like, oh, I want to adopt kids down in, you know where I am. Get that a lot. I get that a lot. It's so frustrating. And we get calls contacting us, saying We really want you in. And I'm like, ah, yeah. There at the moment. So yeah. So it's, it's an exciting time and I think I really, really, I'm hopeful that there's gonna be a change. There has to be a change in the education system and in special educational needs. There has to be. Thank you so much, Julie, for coming on and being a guest and, remember that Conversations with Send Mom, new episode comes every other week so fortnightly and you can connect over on Instagram Conversations with Send Mom. So we will see you soon. Thank you Julie. Thank you so bye.